RegisterSearchFAQMemberlistUsergroupsLog in
Evil Oil Drain Plug
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Reply to topic    All things Bajaj (Chetak & Legend) Forum Index » Bajaj Maintenance, Service, Shop Manuals View previous topic
View next topic

Evil Oil Drain Plug
Author Message
rufusswan



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Taneyville, Missouri

Post Reply with quote
Wombat - the stock drain plug can be picked up with a magnet. I think it is steel.

Cowboy - electrolysis is real (is aggravated by saline) and occurs primarily where different metals come in contact. I think it is called 'dialectic reaction'. I looked at most all the drain plugs available at the local auto store and they all recommend replacing the washer at each oil change. They must all be designed to "squish" upon installation in order to form a good seal, but not necessarily a 2nd or 3rd time. I had to use a wrinch and pliers to screw my deformed washer off as it was locked on.

I also saw numerous types (alum, rubber, nylon, fiber) of washers that should work on the stock drain plug.

_________________
"The trick to thinking is the ability to be able to stop thinking." - actual wisdom found on the web !!
http://zenhuckfinn.wordpress.com
Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:00 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
cowboydoug



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 258
Location: ST. George, Utah

Post Holy Moley... I am A-Feared... Reply with quote
Oh great... now I am all freaked out about changing my oil again... via the drain plug.
I bought my scoot about 6 weeks ago with 1275 miles on it... The day I got it home I ran it
until hot, then I got down...removed the drain plug & immediately removed the filter plug too.
I put the plug back on...snugged it down good but not crazy tight... No Problems.. No leaks...
I repeated this process at 1500 miles because the oil I used was not MA oil for wet clutches...
NooB mistake... Again...no issues with the drain plug...
But my holy hell... I don't want to go that route again based on what I have read here today.

Having said that...My question are:

#1 Does anyone have an idea how much oil is left in the engine if the filter plug is used for draining the oil?
#2 Does anyone know if we can go through the filter hole with a magnetic snake and get the the bottom of
the engine to search for metal shavings?
#3 Suck out the remaining oil the same way?

If no one knows the answer to this I will find out & report on it tomorrow...
Maybe this is over kill... However... I know when draining oil through the primary oil drain hole any nasty stuff
that has settled to the bottom around the oil drain is going to get flushed out...
If I am not going to remove my lower drain plug very often wouldn't this be a benefit?

_________________
Happy Trails,

Cowboydoug


I moved to Utah for fly fishing and the big haired girls...
-the fly fishing has been very good to me...
Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:13 am View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
fishcutter44



Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 78
Location: Rhode Island

Post Plug-phobia Reply with quote
After reading this thread I am wary of the plug. New scoot, first oil change (200 miles) and after I refilled the oil there was a VERY slow drip from the plug. Tightened it just a bit more, and is OK, but I'm going to get a plastic washer to use next time and be very easy on the wrench.
Re; electrolysis, I've worked in the marine industry for over 25 years and think it would be a minor concern in this situation. Aluminum and mild steel are not far enough apart on the galvanic scale, and also not submerged nor exposed to much stray electrical current (hopefully) on our scoots. If the plug was stainless it would definitely be a problem.
Anybody ever use Marine-Tex epoxy? I've had good luck with tricky repairs before, and maybe a last-ditch would be to epoxy the plug in the hole and drain by other means (if the plug hole could be cleaned of oil somehow to make good adhesion).
Comments/criticism/heckling/ball-busting encouraged!
DON"T TIGHTEN TOO MUCH!

_________________
Why?
'05 Chetak
'05 Chetak (I'm a fan)
'05 Honda Met
'65 Fuji Rabbit
Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:31 am View user's profile Send private message
rufusswan



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Taneyville, Missouri

Post Reply with quote
Matty_x wrote:
I tighten it to finger tightness when I'm done and then give it 1/8 to 1/4 turn with a wrench. If it leaks after a week or so, I give it another 1/8 turn.
I think that says it quite well and fishcutter says "Don't OverTighten". Good advice. Be sure to change the washer/gasket on the drain plug, that is the part that stops a leak, not over use of the wrinch. Change your oil according to schedule and keep a happy scoot. No phobia is required.

As to draining the oil from other than the drain hole. No, it will not drain all the oil, but oil is designed to last far longer than 3K miles, and draining most of the oil from the filter hole should be more than adequate when you refill the balance with new.

_________________
"The trick to thinking is the ability to be able to stop thinking." - actual wisdom found on the web !!
http://zenhuckfinn.wordpress.com
Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:14 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
AtLarge



Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 265

Post Reply with quote
rufusswan wrote:
It's sorta hard to tell from the photo above, but on a 1/2" one of these, that round brass tip that pulls the rubber taut in the hole is a bit too big to fit in the hole. It's the brass tip that I have to make smaller. I woulda bought a 3/8" one if I could. I think I can man-handle the rubber portion, IF the whole dam thing is not too long.


Understood. Didn't think about the brass tip. Maybe just running over a grinding wheel would allow you to take enough off the diameter to pass through the hole but still expand properly? I did a little snooping around and found this:

http://www.shawplugs.com/snap-tite-expandable-rubber-plugs-c-250.html

The dimensions are listed on their web page. I contacted them and they offer the same 3/8'' model but with a silicone seal instead that is good to 450 degrees. The standard is only recommended to 200 degrees. They are $13.75 ea with a minimum buy of 2. Your thoughts on this alternative?

_________________
Now firing. Inquire within.
Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:24 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Threegoofs



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 61
Location: Chicago- Western Suburbs

Post Reply with quote
rufusswan wrote:
Matty_x wrote:
I tighten it to finger tightness when I'm done and then give it 1/8 to 1/4 turn with a wrench. If it leaks after a week or so, I give it another 1/8 turn.
I think that says it quite well and fishcutter says "Don't OverTighten". Good advice. Be sure to change the washer/gasket on the drain plug, that is the part that stops a leak, not over use of the wrinch. Change your oil according to schedule and keep a happy scoot. No phobia is required.

As to draining the oil from other than the drain hole. No, it will not drain all the oil, but oil is designed to last far longer than 3K miles, and draining most of the oil from the filter hole should be more than adequate when you refill the balance with new.



Well, that settles it for me then. My only Wrinch I use will be the 22mm socket on the oil filter. My oil drain bolt will stay in virginal condition and never be screwed again.
Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:54 pm View user's profile Send private message
rufusswan



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Taneyville, Missouri

Post Reply with quote
Once I effect a permanent repair, I will follow Matty's program of a complete drain once per year, but drain thru the filter hole on regular intervals. It might be inexpensive to get some small tubing and a siphon pump and do a thorough draining thru the dipstick hole. That would be worth checking into.

Those heat rated industrial plugs would probably work ok as a temporary fix, or perhaps a permanent one. Of course, at $15 a pop, you would eventually exceed the cost of paying someone to do a permanent drill & tap repair. I can't force a 3/8" drill bit into the hole, so the 3/8 x 11/16 should do the job. There is about 3/4" of 'depth' for the drain plug before you contact the innards of scoot so it should fit that way also.

_________________
"The trick to thinking is the ability to be able to stop thinking." - actual wisdom found on the web !!
http://zenhuckfinn.wordpress.com
Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:39 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
SmittyScoots



Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Portland, OR

Post Reply with quote
I was thinking of trying one of those drill powered pumps that are designed for getting the oil out through the dipstick opening. Has anyone tried one? Can you get all the oil out? I've seen them around for about $10 and I have used them in boat engines...they work pretty good for that.
Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:53 pm View user's profile Send private message
rufusswan



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Taneyville, Missouri

Post Knowledge gained too late Reply with quote
I have my scoot laid over in the yard in order to drill and tap a new drain plug. She looks a bit like a beached Manatee. I also have still and DV camera out to film some stuff for the DVD. I'm being... well, methodical. Looking where one normally does not look, being specific, etc.

I've purchased a 12mm replacement plug that is substantially longer than the stock plug. As is mentioned up-thread, too long a plug will catch on the internals of the engine. For the first time I can actually see up thru the drain hole and into the bowels of the scoot.

Before I slip my drill bit in to tap the larger hole I confirm with my eyes what I'm drilling 'out'. What do I see to drill out? THREADS I see 10mm x 1.25 pitch threads, about 6mm's worth, and UNUSED BY THE STOCK DRAIN BOLT. Shocked They are not stripped, they are setting there ready to be used. The only stripped threads are those that were used by the stock plug. Only 60% of the threads in the case are used by the stock drain plug. Am I pissed? NO, I am royally pissed.

There (are in round numbers) 12mm worth of threads in the case. The stock drain bolt uses only 6 or 7mm of the 12. Had I known this earlier, I would have purchased a longer bolt. There is no magic in the drain bolt, it's only job is to hold the gasket/washer up against the case and prevent leaks. 10 lbs. of torque max. Any darn bolt the right size will work. One the length of the threads would be difficult to strip.

Here's a pic of the drain hole. It's hard to see, but the ridge inside the hole are the unused threads.


Here is a pic of the stock vs my replacement plug


_________________
"The trick to thinking is the ability to be able to stop thinking." - actual wisdom found on the web !!
http://zenhuckfinn.wordpress.com
Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:16 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
rufuskeet



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 66
Location: Texas Panhandle

Post Reply with quote
rufusswan I am highly intrigued to see what comes of this. I too have had some small problems with my drain plug, I ended up using a nylon washer I found at the hardware store and it seems to have worked for now ( http://www.airpartsinc.com/products/images/nylon-washer-p15.jpg )

It would be great though to know that a different bolt would solve everyone's problems.

Seth
Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:22 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cowboydoug



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 258
Location: ST. George, Utah

Post Oh Happy Day Reply with quote
I agree with you Paz... the info about the bolt length would have been super news for you to
have had way back when - However, I do believe you have cause to crack a coldie... As if we
need a reason Wink

So...length really does matter... Laughing

thanks for the info.

_________________
Happy Trails,

Cowboydoug


I moved to Utah for fly fishing and the big haired girls...
-the fly fishing has been very good to me...
Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:51 pm View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
rufusswan



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Taneyville, Missouri

Post Reply with quote
Well, we can all over torque any bolt, and we can all be remiss in not using a good washer/gasket when we change the oil. These type things are considered a "best practice". But I can say that my drain bolt only used 60% of the available threads, and had I known I would have purchased a longer one. Evil or Very Mad

I would much rather spend an extra 30 seconds removing and installing a longer bolt than having to risk splitting my case to install a 12mm drain bolt. I'm in the process of tapping the new hole, and I'm filming, so parts of this exercise may be on the DVD.

Wrinchin' is fun in its own way, but the skeeters are eatin' me up, and I'm still royally peeved. For the want of a nail and all that. By which I mean, such a small lack of knowledge has led to such a large requirement for work. Wink

_________________
"The trick to thinking is the ability to be able to stop thinking." - actual wisdom found on the web !!
http://zenhuckfinn.wordpress.com
Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:51 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
rufusswan



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Taneyville, Missouri

Post Reply with quote
I have popped a cold one or two, am listening a John Denver concert on TV PBS and have successfully drilled and tapped the above 12mm replacement plug into the Buddha's case. I ride in the morning Cool

The stem of the above bolt is approx. 11/16th's of an inch long, just shy of 3/4". It does NOT touch or hinder the internals of the engine, I have checked. With a 1/8" washer inserted on it, the bolt makes 100% use of the available threads in the case, cinches down quite rightly, and as far as I am concerned is perfectly safe.

I would still recommend that a stock drain bolt be replaced. Just buy one that is at least 1/4" to 3/8" longer than stock, and there will be far less risk of stripping the threads. Don't hesitate to change washers each time or two you change oil, whether you are using the stock alum gasket/washer, the nylon ones I bought to replace the stock, or a good fiber or rubber washer. Any should work ok if changed frequently.

Paz

_________________
"The trick to thinking is the ability to be able to stop thinking." - actual wisdom found on the web !!
http://zenhuckfinn.wordpress.com
Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:23 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
hkabik



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 50

Post Reply with quote
Does that mean simply buying a longer bolt may work for me? It'll just grab the threads beyond the stripped ones and lock in?
Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:59 am View user's profile Send private message
rufusswan



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Taneyville, Missouri

Post Reply with quote
I can't say that as you don't know whether the threads on your 'fix' are aligned to 'synch' up with the unused threads. But I did consider your fix + a longer 10mm bolt and fresh solvent weld all at the same time. McGyver might give that a thumbs up Confused

That's your call.

_________________
"The trick to thinking is the ability to be able to stop thinking." - actual wisdom found on the web !!
http://zenhuckfinn.wordpress.com
Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:10 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
rufusswan



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Taneyville, Missouri

Post Reply with quote
Sorry, I forgot the important info:

I drilled out the unused threads with a 7/16" bit and then I tapped. It took some time but I worked slow, and did it right. The 7/16" bit was smaller than the hole left by the stripped threads, but in then end it all worked out OK.

_________________
"The trick to thinking is the ability to be able to stop thinking." - actual wisdom found on the web !!
http://zenhuckfinn.wordpress.com
Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:21 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
cowboydoug



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 258
Location: ST. George, Utah

Post yoda Reply with quote
I like Matty's approach... hand tighten... and then just a smidgen more... and ALWAYS replace the
gasket... (replace it with what is the questions) but replace it)
I for one would like to know with what?
I am not mechanical... I am more design... I did car interiors when I was a lad...
I can make most things work with plastic, fiberglass...,,,etc...
I am remoulding my horncast...
just be gentle... with bolts... that's all I know
I worked at a service station as a kid...
I learned about all of that stuff...
be the Yoda or whoever... "Feel It" it's there & you can...

_________________
Happy Trails,

Cowboydoug


I moved to Utah for fly fishing and the big haired girls...
-the fly fishing has been very good to me...
Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:31 am View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
SmittyScoots



Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Portland, OR

Post Reply with quote
So, from what I gather, if the threads are not stripped, would it be worthwile to purchase a 10mm bolt that is 12mm in length and has a 1.25 pitch? If so, would it be best to find this bolt in aluminum?
Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:55 am View user's profile Send private message
rufusswan



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Taneyville, Missouri

Post Reply with quote
My replacement has a stem about 17mm in length and fits just fine. With a washer on it, it uses the entire thread length. The only thing unique about a drain plug is the big built-in head/washer combination so there is lots of surface area to compress the washer up against the case. The trick might be finding one that small. I noticed a lot of 10mm x 1.50 plugs, but not at 1.25. I wouldn't get too concerned as to whether it is steel or aluminum.

All 1/2" drain plug washers at the local auto store will fit right on. Mine came with a fiber one that I will use, and I will put some Teflon tape on the threads.

_________________
"The trick to thinking is the ability to be able to stop thinking." - actual wisdom found on the web !!
http://zenhuckfinn.wordpress.com
Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:54 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
AtLarge



Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 265

Post Reply with quote
Tonight was oil change night. I scooted on Sunday so the oil was hot and when I came home pulled the plug and the filter so it had over 24 hours to drain well. In preparation for this I ordered the Shaw plugs as a back up plan for the future. I stopped by True Value and picked up a 10mm x 20mm x 1.25 (took the shortest in the box), a steel washer (no aluminum or crush available) and a fibre washer. Mine didn't have the built in flange washer or that chamfer before the threads like yours did Rufus. All of this was in preparation for the worst case scenario. Inspection showed all my threads are in good conditon. Since I was already armed I decided that stock plug had to go. I checked for depth to make sure the 20mm wasn't too long a couple of different ways and it looked good. With the steel washer and fibre washer the actual thread length left was about 16 to 17mm. Snugged her up, put the clean filter in and added oil. Warmed it up and went around the hood a couple of times. 31ยบ right now so I stayed out as long as I could take it without gloves and helmet. Razz After I parked it I put a piece of cardboard on the floor under the plug to make sure all is well since I've never used a fibre washer before and I'm not sure what to expect for a seal.

A few thoughts: I disassembled the Shaw plug and chucked the screw into a drill press lightly. Then while it was spinning I touched it with a flat file to take the OD of the tip down just enough (a couple hairs width) to pass through the threaded drain hole. Reassembled and tested it for fit. The rubber gives with no problem at all but that raised area around the drain hole is somewhat of a pain. The plug will work and it can be tightened up well even though it's not completely flush. The rubber is really soft so it gives easily but I don't think I could pull it out by hand once installed. This will be my go to option should the SHTF in the future. Also, because of that raised area I trimmed off the excess from the fibre washer so it matched the OD of the steel washer. That way both cleared that raised area on the crankcase. Someday that chunk may meet my air grinder. Shocked

Overall I'm really pleased with the Preventitive Maintenanced performed. Thanx for the heads up and the excellent pictures Rufus. I strongly suggest this be stickied for the newcomers to the Bajaj's. The good book says 3lbs. torque max and that's not much. Especially for those of us who grew up with American cars that have steel oil pans. Wink

_________________
Now firing. Inquire within.
Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:28 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
rufuskeet



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 66
Location: Texas Panhandle

Post Reply with quote
I've switched over to the longer plug, but I am still getting some leaks. In order for the plug to fit, I had to use 2 metal washer with 1 fiber washer.

Is it the multiple washers that are causing the slow oil leak? Can I use a teflon tape? or would that melt?
Tue May 26, 2009 10:56 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
dirkhunt
Guest





Post Reply with quote
teflon tape won't melt
Wed May 27, 2009 1:24 pm
Crusader Tom



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Kansas City, Kansas

Post Reply with quote
...yep teflon tape works great! i've seen it hold on stripped plugs too.(for a year at least)

_________________
i'm uncool. and i'm cool with that.
Wed May 27, 2009 2:13 pm View user's profile Send private message
Rabid_Wombat



Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Overland Park, KS

Post Reply with quote
Teflon tape - what a great idea.

Also - I would think you should make sure you have a new aluminum washer next to the case if at all possible.

My KLR650 manual recommends a new washer with every oil change.

Some guys have been using a hard plastic washer, too. I will find that out and post it.

_________________
Jamie B.
'01 Suzuki DR650 - pondering selling and going back to scooting only
'88 FJ62 Land Cruiser - Family Wagon
Wed May 27, 2009 3:10 pm View user's profile Send private message
Crusader Tom



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Kansas City, Kansas

Post Reply with quote
...probably a teflon washer

_________________
i'm uncool. and i'm cool with that.
Wed May 27, 2009 3:30 pm View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:    

Reply to topic    All things Bajaj (Chetak & Legend) Forum Index » Bajaj Maintenance, Service, Shop Manuals All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to: 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


© 2007-2008 Informe.com. Get Free Forum Hosting
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
 :: 
Design by Freestyle XL / Flowers Online.