To Buy or not To Buy

So, as some of you know, I've been toying with the idea of selling my 'tak and getting something I can take out of the city. I'm dying to be able to hop on my bike and head across the Golden Gate up to Pt. Reyes etc.

I love my scooter, and have put a bit of time into her to make her mine. I like that scooters can be a way to express who we are, although I don't know what part of me orange racing stripes and a 115 dB air horn represent, but that's beside the point.

I'm having a hard time justifying needing a scooter, motorcycle and a car (and I'm having a hard time wanting to spend my savings).

I test rode a 94 Ninja this morning. A pretty comfortable bike, in seemingly pretty good shape, something that would be pretty good for commuting around the city and certainly good for some rides to the ocean. My issue is that is has no character. It's a great bike, and I'm sure it would be a blast to ride, but it's kinda boring. The only exciting thing about it is when you open up the throttle. And for someone who has never ridden anything more than 250cc's, that's pretty exciting.

I really like it when people yell from the curb or the car next to me that they like my scooter (even if they sometimes call it a Stella or Vespa). I like things that have character. It's why I like vintage rides, be they cars, motorcycles, or scooters. I don't care so much if they're actually vintage, I actually prefer the reliability of modern, but I like the look, which is why I love the Bajaj, and the new modern classics that Triumph and other manufacturers are putting out. I really like the Royal Enfield bikes, but they're not up to CA's emission standards (another reason why some people hate the great Golden State). I've also got my eye on some sort of 250 - 350 cc dual sport / super moto. Great for the city, good enough to get out of town, although generally really ugly colors. Slightly more character than a naked street bike, but not as much as that Bajaj Chetak.

I'm just thinking out loud here, and hoping some of y'all will be a sounding board for me...

I'm feeling the pull of Samsara here, my desire for bigger, better, faster, more, and my ego wanting to be noticed when I'm out and about, and my definite attachment to my beloved.

On that note, it's way too lovely of a day in SF to be inside posting on the forum...so thanks for listening and ride safe!!!

Peace out,
Baileyman

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2005 Chetak

Beetle,

Samasara indicates a wandering, and a yearning, which in itself says that testing/experimentation is in progress yet the direction or ultimate goal has not been clearly defined. I find at the end of reading your post that you recognize that speed is might be an illusion and that style may be fleeting. You do seem to realize that character, after all, might be the most lasting of attributes. It could be that you possess more character than you realize.

I would suggest continuing the search. A little more speed would open more roads, and there are numerous bikes made that might fit your desires. You might even find there are many used bikes in your area that would accomplish your Samasara without requiring purchasing new. Hell, you might find you could also keep your scoot.

As a suggestion I'd offer an older Honda twin. 350 or 400 cc's will get you any highway and most any distance, easily equipped for dual-sport, yet light and nimble for in-the-city. Don't worry about the looks, go for quality and character, you've already proven you can conquer the 'style' aspect with your scoot.

Paz

You might peruse: http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=35

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"I see a big market for designer tin foil head gear..."

"Grow up and stop posting like a 14th Century Vatican Flat Earth Zealot."

I too have felt the pull lately of the 'big bike', but I'm planning on adding a bike to the stable once I get the Bajaj paid for, rather than having just one.

I understand if that's not an option for you, and realistically, it's probably not the best choice for me, but I'm enjoying the two-wheeled experience so much, I can see this becoming an unhealthy collection of two-wheeled contraptions. Now, to get a better job to support said habit...

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It's better to be silent and let people think you're a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I might just have to add something to the garage. It would certainly make it easier to buy something ugly and/or boring. I too need a job that will allow me to work on building a collection.

I think you're right Rufus, quality and character are most important.

I'll have to let go of something, be it a scooter, my attachment to something with style, or money. So far no takers on my scooter on Craigslist, but I also have it priced a little on the higher end. I could come down in price a bit, but then I might actually sell it. Shocked

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2005 Chetak

I would recommend test riding a BUELL BLAST. They are fun to ride, great handling little cycles that can be bought used for a song. Really cool fo what they are. There are aftermarket pipes for them- they sound like a monster chetak.

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It was just an innocent gas pump fight...who would know it could be dangerous?

i highly recomend an 80's UJM. they come anywhere from 200cc up to and surpassing the liter. and nowadys they are becoming a little priceier. but you can still find one for less then a grand in decent shape. you ride a chetak so you should be pretty handy with a wrench. most of these bike are just like your scoot but with more cylinders. i had both a 550seca and kz650. if you liked the ninja definatly look into older 80s machines. same technology. none of the plastic. and there is not a huge cult following of restorers for these particular machines. so noone will scoff at you for makeing it your own instead of making it right. ie cafe racer, flat tracker, mad max cross country death machine, anyways...thats my 2 cents.

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Thats a sweet bike.

H-Burg Hooligans.
Harrisburgs Toughest.

http://harrisburghooligans.freeforums.org/

	cowboyrob wrote:
	I would recommend test riding a BUELL BLAST. They are fun to ride, great handling little cycles that can be bought used for a song. Really cool fo what they are. There are aftermarket pipes for them- they sound like a monster chetak.

I've heard good things about the Blast, and have been recommended them more than once. I would be much more into them if I even a little bit liked how they looked. My taste is very particular...why do you think I own a Bajaj? Some of the other Buells are quite nice looking, but I'm not quite ready for 1100+ cc's...

I am still looking at the UJMs. I like the Honda Hawk NT650. The price varies on them a lot, and is fairly commensurate with the mileage.

What about the Yamaha FZR 400? Do y'all know anything about those?

Thanks again for your insights! The conversations are helpful...

Peace out,
Baileyman

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2005 Chetak

Beetle,

Why don't you expand on what you want a bike to do (or what you want to do on a bike) .... and what interests you in terms of 'looks' Confused

There's a zillion "cool" bikes folk could recommend for a zillion reasons.

To me, all crotch rockets are devoid of any style whatsoever, do what that do very well, and would involve me in a glorious but early death. I sold my 650 Suzi for that reason, and the fact you couldn't ride it for more than 30 minutes. A joy to ride, but the 'buzzing' after the ride ruined the experience. My R75/5 will go fast enough to insure at least a semi-glorious death, couldn't be more comfortable, allows me to enjoy any trip or any distance without getting in the way, and is easy to wrinch on. There is nothing I want to do with it that it cannot do.

If you started with the bike below (or the scrambler variant) you can go stock, dual-purpose, or cafe. All for little dollars and do most wrinching yourself.

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"I see a big market for designer tin foil head gear..."

"Grow up and stop posting like a 14th Century Vatican Flat Earth Zealot."

That is a sweet little ride. Pretty much what i'm thinking of getting. Ahh...some day...

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It's better to be silent and let people think you're a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

I've definitely been looking at those scramblers. Love the look, and would be a great ride for around town. There's a Honda CL360 in SF that some guy wants to get rid of. He did a bunch of work on it a couple of years ago, rode it a little, changed jobs, stopped riding, and let it sit for two years. I went to see it, it started fine right away, but had no power, and eventually died on me a couple of blocks from his place. Thankfully he lived down the hill from where it died. He doesn't have the time or energy to fix it, and I do, but within reason. I just finished reading a thread about someone with poor power issues on their mid 70s CL360 and it took many many days to trouble shoot to mostly rectify the problem. That's exactly my concern, lots of frustration, and a higher possibility of getting stranded. I can't get him down quite low enough on the price. He thinks it's a simple fix for someone with the right know how. I think it's a potential massive headache. But then again, if it were a big headache, it would be a great opportunity for me to learn about working on bikes...hmmm...

There's also a 76 BMW R60/6 that looks pretty tempting...http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/mcy/1269339223.html I could mos def get into that bike. Rufus, what can you tell me about those older Beemers?

So, what do I want a bike to do...I want something that will be mostly used for driving the city streets of San Francisco (quick, nimble, good lane splitter), but that I can take on the freeway and twisty mountain roads on rides of an hour or 2 out to the beach. I also want something that I can pretty reliably start on a daily basis. I think a newer 250 or 350 supermoto would do me right...maybe it's time I keep the scoot and sell the car...anyone want to buy a 2000 Honda Insight, Hybrid, low miles, very well maintained?

Bikes I like the looks of:
* Scramblers (Honda CL360, and other older Hondas like the CB400)
* Old BMWs
* Honda Hawk NT650 (late 80s - early 90s)
* Ducati Monster
* A Supermoto would be fine too (i.e. Kawasaki KLX250SM)[/list][/code]

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2005 Chetak

I'd love to just ramble about anything, so consider the following just opinion not advice. I'm glad you're putting some time and thought into your next bike. It's good to do some soul-searching before hand 'cause I'll bet the day while come when you see it, and it will be an irresistible force and your wallet will not be an irremovable object and you will wake up the next day with a new friend Shocked

With the internet you can research most any bike worth a damn and learn a lot about it before you even touch one. The UJM's (like all other Jap bikes) are really of high quality and dependability. Their heritage is racing, so they are highly technical in nature (18 valves per cylinder, 6 cams, etc.) and are way beyond my skill level. I'm not a mechanic like Crusader Tom, I am at best a shade tree wrinch. I do OK outside of engines and trannys, not inside. These bikes also turn 11K+ rpms and demand to be ridden that way. Death traps because their ability far exceeds what is needed to run around a city or buzz over the mountains for a jaunt to Carmel. They would be good at that but not my personal cup of tea. However, a 250-350 twin crotch rocket might make a really nice compromise.

I've been researching for a compromise between the scoot and the big bike. [this is just wish book looking, mind you] Something small and nimble yet highway capable, to fit right between the two. Not saying the Beemer isn't nimble, but I weigh 132 and it weighs 475. It's a full-fledged touring bike. In the city you're lucky to hit 3rd gear. It ain't for lane splitting and dashing around parking lots. Get it off the streets and on the road and everything changes. The drive-shaft makes it smooth as silk. Beemers are not allowed to be loud, uncomfortable, nor leak oil, just a touch of exhaust note to prove the motor is still running. She's there to help you enjoy the ride. It has tons of power and the low CG means it will carve a canyon road with style. Toss on the cloth saddlebags and go out for a week. Easy Riding. The wire wheels look cool, and drum brakes work twice as good as everyone says. Naked before naked was cool except for the shock covers and the snazzy battery cover. Ah, well.

As I said I been researching the Honda 350-360-400 twins. That one you rode has been sitting for two years. They run like shizz on a weak battery by design and they will not run on a low one. I'd guess if you cleaned the carbs and install a new battery it might run like a new. Just guessing. But they have enough power, not too small nor too large, good solid old technology. Personally I'd like the scrambler pipes, and would fit dual-purpose tires and go anywhere in the Ozark Mountains. Camp out on some remote stream and wade fish, have bourbon and beer over a fire. Better close up the old wish book.

That Beemer? its gone already, they don't hang around long with a "For Sale" sign on 'em, and for good reason. The 90/6 is one of the better ones, but better among the old boxers is, a ... ah .... let's call it a nuance rather than a distinction. (Like if Halle Berry had a twin, would it really make a difference?)

You're looking at some nice bikes Beetle. Keep us posted on what your lookin' at. I'm having fun with it myself.

Paz

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"I see a big market for designer tin foil head gear..."

"Grow up and stop posting like a 14th Century Vatican Flat Earth Zealot."

I've always liked the look of the Honda Dream

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1969-honda-dream-305.htm/printable

I also like the low slung look of an early 70's Moto Guzzi

but this isn't exactly the nimble lane splitting bike you want... it is cool looking though

@ Rufus: I dig your ramblings Rufus. You've got some wisdom there, and it seems like you're thinking along the same lines I am. I like those scrambler pipes too, up high like that. I know for a fact that battery was dead on that CL. Not even low...just flat out dead, no neutral lights or blinkers...So maybe that CL360 for $800 isn't such a bad deal...especially if I could hang on to my scoot for awhile while I got the thing running.

As cool as the beemer is, it seems like it's not the right bike for my needs now. Another time perhaps.

@Dirkhunt: I dig the dream too, they come up for sale around SF from time to time, and those Moto Guzzi's are great! I checked out a new one (similar styling to the one you posted) today, not with any intention of buying it, just looking. Sharp bike for sure.

One thing is becoming clear to me...some day I will need a bigger garage...

Thanks guys...

Late,
Baileyman

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2005 Chetak

Keep lookin', at least you got more stuff to look at in your area than I have in mine! This 350 scrambler for $1900 might put some perspective on the one you coasted on.... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/mcy/1278354665.html

The term "dual purpose" bike means to most that you also want to ride on graveled backroads and trails, crappy road surfaces and the like. But you folk who must endure city traffic as a major portion of your riding time need a different type of dual purpose vehicle. My 6 mile ride to work, all directly in/thru the city, 17 stop lights, hit 40 mph a couple of times was not enough time to even dry out the engine which is hard on motors.

Beemers are unique with the shaft drive, but the new bikes with belt drives sorta even that difference out. The old boxers are also unique in that both the cylinders move out (and in) at the same time. The main engine mass is always in balance and is not rotating in a circle. It gives them a decidedly distinct feel. And you fly down the road at only 3500-4000 rpms too.

	beetle94707 wrote:
	I'm having a hard time justifying needing a scooter, motorcycle and a car (and I'm having a hard time wanting to spend my savings).

I'd get over that feeling real fast Laughing

It sounds to me like you have your 'needs' covered today but you have a serious "weekend warrior" itch. As long as you stayed within any kind of minimal budget to scratch the itch, it would seem very logical to me. Cool

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"I see a big market for designer tin foil head gear..."

"Grow up and stop posting like a 14th Century Vatican Flat Earth Zealot."

Damn you all! Now I'm scouring CL for a Scrambler/CL/Dream.

I got to ride a Honda CL 200 or 180 or something like that this last weekend. A little twin. It was, dare I say, as fun to ride as my Bajaj was. Guy paid $400 for it, running and in decent shape with a clean title. Rude.

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The "X" stands for ex-Chetak owner.

	matty_x wrote:
	Damn you all! Now I'm scouring CL for a Scrambler/CL/Dream.

Remember that $600 Rebel 250 I saw in your neighborhood? You shoulda been down on that like a raptor Embarassed

Them things are plastered all over CL for $1500 - $2000. Are you asleep on your Barco-lounger up der?#@??%?$#

As Misty been sayin', them older Jap bikes are really well built and can be had for peanuts. No, they ain't all in great shape, but ... they are no more complex to get or keep running than our Bajaj scoots. Even if you had to drop one off at a dealer for a $350 fix ..... well, you ain't the only one lookin' Cool

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"I see a big market for designer tin foil head gear..."

"Grow up and stop posting like a 14th Century Vatican Flat Earth Zealot."

I just test rode that CL350 for $1900 on CL that Rufus mentioned a couple of posts back. Ran good, a nice little bike, quick enough for me, in decent enough shape all things considered. It needs new tires and all the lighting is missing. Apparently all the connectors are there for the lights, they just need to be purchased attached, and connected up, an easy enough job. Probably needs a couple hundred dollars at least to get it in the shape I'd like. One of my complaints was that my right leg started cramping after just a few minutes. The foot brake lever was bent up a little, making it a little awkward and maybe adding to the crampiness. It's not a big bike, and at 6' I might need more room.

The guy also said how important a strong battery was for these bikes. $800 for a 75 CL360 that likely needs only a battery (maybe some carb cleaning), or $1900 (but would try to get him down a bit) for one that needs at least a couple a bills...

As much as I hate to say it, I could see myself selling the Chetak for one of those hondas, but would most def want to keep my scoot if I went for the 90's UJM (which I'm leaning away from).

Maybe we'll have to create a spinoff Honda CL Scrambler forum before too long ;)

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2005 Chetak

I mentioned the $1900 dollar bike as 'perspective'. From your description the damn thing needs $500 in it just to find out if it's worth a shit since they both are unknown mechanically. A $2K CB350-360 should be immaculate. Total and complete, fully rebuilt, like frickin' showroom new, not as a "starting point" for a resto. That thing looked nice in the pics, but you say "the lights are missing" Embarassed

That'll probably cost you $200-$300. Here is a link to a similar bike and the poster wants objective opinions: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488467

Any used two wheeler will cost $200 bucks just for the battery and tires. Plus local registration fees and such. Ya gotta be realistic about the cost to swap or purchase something as you have to add that to the purchase price.

You do need to at least try one on for "fit". Sure it's not too expensive to adjust pegs, levers and bars. At 5'8" I'm an easy fit on most anything. If you ain't comfortable sitting on one you will hate it.

Anyway, I'm glad you're putting this experience here as what you are doing applies to our scoots as well. So as vicarious as it might seem it is still good experience. Find some more stuff to test ride and tell us about Cool

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"I see a big market for designer tin foil head gear..."

"Grow up and stop posting like a 14th Century Vatican Flat Earth Zealot."

You are right on regarding buying a bike that fit--and applying to scooters as well. I knew I wanted a Bajaj, but rode several different scooters anyway, just to get familiar with what was out there, how they 'felt', how they rode, got off the line, etc.. Riding the Kymco People 150 felt so cramped, I knew before I even got it moving that I didn't like it. The Kymco 250 was a little better, but overall same. Liked the ride of the Buddy, but wouldn't want to be on one over about 45mph. They also looked a lot less cool up close and personal--too much plastic for me.

When I finally did get on the Bajaj it just felt 'right'. Plenty of cockpit room. Loved the low end pull. Nimble yet sturdy. Didn't have that high-pitched scooter whine or 'whir'. In short, it was definitely the one. And the fact that I rode some other scoots, and still wanted the Bajaj made me feel that much better about over-paying for it. (The scoot environment here in PDX is decidedly a seller's market.) Knowing they were 'extinct' made the decision easier too.

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It's better to be silent and let people think you're a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

Yeah, it's been good to get out and ride a few different bikes. It mos def helps in narrowing things down. As much as I like the vintage styling of the honda scramblers, I just don't fit on them so well.

I haven't ridden many other scooters than the Bajaj. My brother has an Aprillia Mojito Custom. It's not necessarily a small scooter, but it does feel more cramped, especially 2 up, than the Bajaj. It always amazes me when I see some college dude riding his little 50cc scoot around town curled up in a small little ball around his handle bars with his knees nearly in the way of his mirrors. How do they do it? It looks horribly uncomfortable, not to mention unsafe? I don't see how they maneuver the thing?

Today I've been thinking a lot about a 400cc supermoto, especially after going to the Santa Cruz mountains yesterday and seeing a handful of them cruising along highway 17, or the twisties through the state parks and small towns down there. It looked like a blast. That's next up on my "window licking" (as they call it in French) adventures...

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2005 Chetak

Great conversation, and a common topic "wanderlust"

First of all, this: http://virtualschool.edu/mon/Quality/PirsigZen/

And secondly, I have the same thing, but opposite: I really want a moped or a small Honda scooter. I love the Bajaj and I commute daily on the Kymco (which is a perfect fit for my 5'11" BTW) but I keep thinking that a small (80cc) scooter with a moped sticker (mildly illegal) would complete my garage. For one thing, it would help creep out some of the guys that I ride with (an Elite or Aero would really creep them out), and after I get done with it I could probably run with one of their smallframe Vespas, just for fun. A moped like a Ciao or a Puch (both of which I grew up on) would get mad props and would (after I got done with it) be fast enough for the meet ups, if not the short rides. Just for fun, you know.

To fund this expenditure, I'm going to flog my old bass. I don't play it anymore and my daughter is not the musical type (or at least not for my heavy old bass). I think that with three distinctly different types of scooters, I can begin to complete my "weird scooter" collection, and tweak some of the Vespa purists around here Twisted Evil

Good luck everybody - follow that bliss!

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Ronin
Rovers SC
1981 Vespa P200e
2002 Bajaj Legend
2005 Kymco Agility 125
http://www.examiner.com/x-3223-Detroit-Scooter-Examiner

Hey Ronin,

Thanks for that link...I look forward to reading it.

Your scooter / moped forays sound fun...

What kind of bass are you thinking of getting rid of? I play bass too and have a small collection. I could sell a bass or two and help fund a motorcycle, but even though I don't play tons anymore either, I can't bring myself to get rid of my cool vintage basses. When I do play, it's important that I have the right bass...

Cheers!
Bailey

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2005 Chetak

It's a 1981 Gibson L9-S "The Ripper" Kalamazoo, and it's a sweetheart. I'm the original owner and I've managed to not screw it up. Since I very rarely have played it (and never gigged with it), it's in fine fettle with the HS case and such. I'm shocked that it's more than doubled in value, but there are a lot of L9s out there, so only a mild classic. I'm sure that I will miss it when it's gone, but I miss that next scooter already! I'm not really good enough anymore (and zero time to pick it up), so someone else can love on it for a little while.

I understand exactly what you are saying. The fun part is considering the next move. Once you make the move, you can't take it back. This life is full of adventure! Please keep us up-to-date on your progress Wink

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Ronin
Rovers SC
1981 Vespa P200e
2002 Bajaj Legend
2005 Kymco Agility 125
http://www.examiner.com/x-3223-Detroit-Scooter-Examiner

Here's the next update...

After much thought, I decided that I am far more attached to my scooter than I am to my car, especially living in SF. I drive my car from one side of the street to the next on mondays and thursdays for street sweeping. I hope that I can find a spot to park my car on sunday nights and wednesday nights, and although I always do, it's a hassle. I drive to the grocery store sometimes, but often I take the 'tak. Gotta love that big ol' honkin glove box...eggs, check, cereal, check, milk, check, fruit, check, bread check...I drive across the Bay Bridge to visit friends and family in the Beast (or the East Bay as it's more commonly known), and 75% of the time when I do I wish I had a bike, because it shouldn't take an hour and 15 minutes to drive 25 miles.

So, after 20 years of car ownership, I'm selling the car and buying a bike that will be decent on the freeway and fine in the city, but also keeping the scooter.

I'm looking at either a new 2007 Ninja EX500. It's from a dealer. It's got 6.8 miles on it, at least it did on Tuesday. They're asking ~$5000. They've got another grand in set up fees etc., which I hear are totally bogus fees they tack on and there's not necessarily a lot of rhyme or reason behind where they come from. Plus there's going to be tax, license, and doc fees...I'm probably looking at about another couple of grand over the asking price. That's more than I want to spend. I'd like to get it for about $5k out the door, but that may be unrealistic.

I'm also looking at a used (7500mi) 2006 Honda 599, aka Honda Hornet. I've had my eyes on those for some time now, and they are hard to come by, for various reasons. There's a dealer in SF who just got one in but they haven't gotten it ready for the showroom floor yet. The last one they had in sold in under an hour after hitting the floor. They haven't priced it yet, but they're looking at $5 - 5.5K, plus all the fees and taxes and such. They probably won't be very flexible on the price as they don't need to be. It'll sell easily.

So, there's the update. I decided against a supermoto, for a few reasons...I wasn't interested in a 650, and the 400s can do the freeway, but work hard, are vibey, offer no wind protection, will get blown around, and I could see myself getting into some trouble on it. I decided against vintage because I want something that I can take out for a day of half a day and not worry about getting stranded (although the adventure of getting stranded does sound kinda fun). As Rufus pointed out a few posts back, I've got my needs met (i.e. a good city ride) but I want a weekend warrior...

I'm looking forward to seeing what bike I buy...now, I've got to get ready to take care of my obligations before doing some shopping Very Happy

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2005 Chetak

Awesome! At least you are considering all things, and that points to a well-seasoned decision process. I salute your choice to go without a car. That is a brave decision. You will do perfectly well. Perhaps the Corazzo under-hoody is already your friend? I'm going to reward myself with that come my birthday in November.

I've also made a choice, this time to rescue a customized 1981 Vespa P200. It really needs my help to get back to health, and although it will be historical plated (for coolness and for lower insurance, cheap registration and limited use), I intend to ride that thing to club events every week, year 'round, weather willing. We each have our cost and our pain point, eh?

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Ronin
Rovers SC
1981 Vespa P200e
2002 Bajaj Legend
2005 Kymco Agility 125
http://www.examiner.com/x-3223-Detroit-Scooter-Examiner