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Very strange clutch problem
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NickelP



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas

Post Very strange clutch problem Reply with quote
Hey everybody, I need your help.

I have a 2004 Chetak that I have about 13,700 miles on. I have had several small problems in my many miles of riding, and most have been easy to diagnose and fix, but I am having one now that is giving me much confusion. It is very strange, so I will do my best to describe it. Here goes:

At start up, my clutch and shifter work perfectly. Once I have ridden about 10 minuets and the bike starts to get all warmed up, once I shift from 2nd gear to 3rd, and then to 4th, the clutch starts to become very hard to pull in, and will not completely disengage, thus making it very hard to shift back down. If I step hard on the rear [& front] brakes, the clutch will return to proper function. Also if I come to a stop and it has not repaired itself, if I turn the front wheel hard right and then left, at a stop, the clutch will return to proper function. So from these symptoms, I am thinking that something is wrong with my clutch cable sleeve, and somehow the cable is not being allowed to get the full pull, but what makes the problem extra weird, is how it will not do it when cold, but only when everything gets warmed up. And also the problem will happen when I am ridding on a dead flat road, going straight, out of the blue, and then also leave with the same random quickness. I have not taken apart the cable lid on the handle bars yet, because I do not feel certain that is where the problem is coming from.

Has anyone heard of anything like this? I have done many things on my scooter, and I have never had a problem like this.

Please Help!!!

-Nickel P

Question
Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:09 pm View user's profile Send private message
monza



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 343
Location: Kansas City

Post Reply with quote
Off hand, it sounds like a cable. They are cheap enough that you could just swap out the cable to see.

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75 Vespa Primavera "Parmakit 130", P200E,
Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:47 pm View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
NickelP



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas

Post Reply with quote
I have replaced the clutch cable on my bike 3 or more times, with the last time being about a month ago, and everything was fine until about 1 week ago... The first time it happened, I had been going about 50 for a mile, and then at my turn the clutch would not pull all the way in, and making it really hard to get out of 4th gear...

So I had not changed anything on the cable right before it started happening, and when it is working, it is in proper adjustment, but then all of a sudden it does not work...

Question
Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:23 pm View user's profile Send private message
gbosslet



Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 138
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Post Reply with quote
I had the same issue earlier this year. It has become an epic process to get my bike back (see http://retrobajaj.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=361), but i have it now.

The problem and solution are explained in this post:

http://retrobajaj.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=240

The bottom line is that the bolt in the center of the clutch is loose. You have to get into the case a bit to fix it, if I am not mistaken. Maybe monkeyjump could explain a bit how this is done if he is privy to said information.

Here is a thread from the Yahoo! group that addresses the same issue: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bajajscooter/message/31254

If you decide to fix it yourself, take some pics; this has happened to several people, and a pictoral tour of the solution would be a helpful addition to the "how-to" area of this forum.

Let me know if this is your problem....

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gtb
2006 Black Chetak
baby moons, whitewalls
otherwise stock all the way
Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:08 pm View user's profile Send private message
NickelP



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas

Post Reply with quote
Wow... thanks! That sounds exactly like what is happening on my bike.

So now, has anyone done this repair? How hard is it to get into the clutch? I do not have a shop near, and so will likely be attempting this repair on my own. Do you have to pull the motor out?

If anyone has any info on the easiest way to do this, please let me know so I can get my scoot back into tip-top.

Thanks for the info!
Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:24 pm View user's profile Send private message
aman



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Columbus, Oh

Post Reply with quote
Well, I still havent remedied this problem on my scoot. I believe you would drain the oil, remove the rear wheel and hub and take case open on the clutch side of the engine.... now I dont know If there are any other tools that are needed to work on the clutch... but if the issue is just a loose bolt to the basket... doesnt sound too complex. I'll post pics when I have a second to take a look in there.
Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:51 am View user's profile Send private message
jully



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 47
Location: San Diego

Post Reply with quote
Are you talking about the clutch hub nut? If so there is a drawing in the Legend Service Manual (more comprehensive than the Chetak Service Manual - recommended to have both) on page 19. It is an illustration of a special tool, the clutch holder. I have to do this procedure too, so I hope I can manage without the fancy tool. I will use locktight for sure.

(some hours later) Note the diagrams on page 26 of the Legend Service manual. They seem very clear and when I called the local shop about getting a clutch holder tool, they said, "Whaaa?!" but then added that for Vespa work, a person can take a penny, drill a hole in it and secure a string to it so it doesn't go bye-bye, and jam it in the gears to work with the nut. (reverse threaded, BTW) I shall try this. Undoubtedly a penny costs less than a proper tool.


Last edited by jully on Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:23 pm View user's profile Send private message
gbosslet



Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 138
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Post Reply with quote
From a previous post that I read that I cannot find:

Call Al at ArgoUSA and have him send you a clutch tool. It will come in handy, and you won't risk runkying your nut (bad pun).

_________________
gtb
2006 Black Chetak
baby moons, whitewalls
otherwise stock all the way
Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:28 pm View user's profile Send private message
jully



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 47
Location: San Diego

Post removing the rear hub Reply with quote
anyone remember onto which side you should not lay the scooter over? I don't trust the tiny jack to hold up the scooter while I take off the rear tire. I would like to just lay it down, but could make a stand with 2x4s and paving stones.
Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:37 am View user's profile Send private message
cowboyrob



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 831
Location: Fayetteville, AR

Post Re: removing the rear hub Reply with quote
jully wrote:
anyone remember onto which side you should not lay the scooter over? I don't trust the tiny jack to hold up the scooter while I take off the rear tire. I would like to just lay it down, but could make a stand with 2x4s and paving stones.


I read not to lay it on the battery side. I think it said it wuld cause the gas in the carb to run out the airfilter.

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It was just an innocent gas pump fight...who would know it could be dangerous?
Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:49 am View user's profile Send private message
jully



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 47
Location: San Diego

Post Re: removing the rear hub Reply with quote
cowboyrob wrote:
jully wrote:
anyone remember onto which side you should not lay the scooter over? I don't trust the tiny jack to hold up the scooter while I take off the rear tire. I would like to just lay it down, but could make a stand with 2x4s and paving stones.


I read not to lay it on the battery side. I think it said it wuld cause the gas in the carb to run out the airfilter.


Thanks, that was what I was looking for. makes sense. U r helpful !
Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:12 pm View user's profile Send private message
Timo



Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Rogers, AR

Post Reply with quote
Hey everybody, first post here, but I see several familiar faces/screen names.

I am planning on helping NickelP out with this one, but I have not worked on a bajaj before, just vespas. After studying the shop manual, it looks like the clutch is closer to the clutch configuration of a small frame vespa. The clutch is not on the crank. I guess that really does not matter though, it is not a small frame, it is a bajaj.

Back on track.

Do I need to pull the cylinder to get at the clutch. The cam chain is controlled by the crank, right. It looks like the top end can be left in place, but that is not the way it shows in the shop manual. Can someone confirm that all that needs done, is to pull the hub, the clutch cover, and then the clutch?

Also, Cowboyrob, I'm sure we could use your help with this. I'm going to volunteer Nickel to supply all the beer that we need. Smile
Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:07 pm View user's profile Send private message
cowboyrob



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 831
Location: Fayetteville, AR

Post Reply with quote
Timo wrote:

Also, Cowboyrob, I'm sure we could use your help with this. I'm going to volunteer Nickel to supply all the beer that we need. Smile


Hey Timo!
I am planning on working on scooters saturday. Stacy's scooter is revving to all hell when you start it up and it don't quit. I checked the slider thing and the air screw and idle screw nothing helped. I am going to look at the cable and take the carb off and whatever else I can think of. I also got to change my oil because I fell on the left side yesterday, got my dummy leg stuck under the scooter, and laid in the other lane while gas and oil poured all over me on the 125 degree blacktop. Some sorority girl stopped and stared at me a couple of minutes till I popped the bum leg off and got untangled and popped it back on. Rolling Eyes

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It was just an innocent gas pump fight...who would know it could be dangerous?
Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:31 am View user's profile Send private message
mc



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post Reply with quote
Shit. She didn't offer to help???

The scoot didn't wreck your rocket-leg I hope. Speaking of damaged limbs, you've heard of this by now?

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Monica
Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:59 am View user's profile Send private message
Timo



Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Rogers, AR

Post Reply with quote
Well, that Nickel guy is too damn quick. I gave him a call, and he was putting in the oil, in order to give it a try. It was in fact the loose clutch nut from what he said. No report yet on if the test ride went fine, but I'm sure if it did not, I would have heard by now.
Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:21 pm View user's profile Send private message
NickelP



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas

Post Reply with quote
YES! This morning was my first full test ride, where I could get up to temp and speed, and as far as I can tell, everything is fixed! Thank you to everyone who helped me narrow down this problem.

What I did was just lay my scoot down on the right hand side, remove the hub, rear breaks, cover plate, and then the clutch cover. Once inside, the nut that holds the clutch basket on was finger loose [just as I was told it was going to be]. So I put some lock tight [blue] on it, put everything back together, and SHAZAM! I had no parts left over, and so far there is no oil leaking out, so I think it was a success!

I took some pictures of the process I used, and of what it looked like on the inside, so if anyone can help me, I will post them up here [I am not sure how to best do that].

I GOT MY SCOOTER BACK!!! YEAH!!!

For all of my Fayetteville area people, I will see you at tonights ride.

-Nickel P
Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:16 pm View user's profile Send private message
gbosslet



Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 138
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Post Reply with quote
Man, I would love to see those pics. PM me if you want me to post them for you. Otherwise, the instructions are under the "site rules" category... They would go great under the "how to with pics" area.

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gtb
2006 Black Chetak
baby moons, whitewalls
otherwise stock all the way
Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:31 pm View user's profile Send private message
aman



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Columbus, Oh

Post Reply with quote
I took the liberty of posting these photos NickelP sent me and per his request, I am sharing them with you.




Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:46 am View user's profile Send private message
NickelP



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas

Post Reply with quote
Thanks Aaron!!!

I just wanted in these pics to show how I accessed the clutch without removing the motor. The project went as well as I could have hoped.

If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask. There were to many small steps to list or show in my pics.
Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:30 pm View user's profile Send private message
mc



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post Reply with quote
Thanks for sharing your pictures, it's confidence-inspiring when you're looking at the innards for the first time.

I had to read back through the full thread to get the gist of what you were doing though. Your shifting problems were due to the clutch nut being loose, right? You should put this in the How-To section with a quick summary of the problem and the fix.

Related posts:
http://retrobajaj.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=240
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bajajscooter/message/31254

Thanks also to gbosslet and monkeyjump for re-confirming the problem/fix.

Edit: I'm having some unusual shifting problems myself. It's this kind of info that make both the forum and the Yahoo group so valuable.
Thanks guys! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Monica
Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:24 pm View user's profile Send private message
jully



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 47
Location: San Diego

Post Reply with quote
NickelP wrote:


If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask. There were to many small steps to list or show in my pics.


Hi, I was wondering about the removal of the brake. Do I need a special tool? I got as far as removing the wheel/hubnut, but wasn't sure how to go any further. Shrieked and ran away.
Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:46 pm View user's profile Send private message
NickelP



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas

Post Reply with quote
I did this project with no 'special' tools. I used wrenches, screwdrivers, pliers, rubber mallet, rags and the shop manual.

The brakes pads that you expose when you take off the hub are spring loaded, and a bit of levering with a screw driver will get them off. The trick is to pull them directly out from the engine [^up].
The shop manual from this point shows you what bolts you need to remove, and then you tap [bump-knock] with a rubber mallet. That point shows you where my pictures begin. The [left hand thread] bolt that holds the clutch basket was loose on mine, and after tightening [ with blue lock tight] fixed my clutch problems.

Looking closely at what I was removing helped me counter my lack of experience at mechanics. Also I had a very competent helping hand [who's is you see holding the bolt in the pictures].

I have my scooter back and am looking forward to putting many more miles on it!
Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:15 am View user's profile Send private message
saluki10



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Quad Cities, IL

Post Stuck at this point Reply with quote
I've had the exact problem listed here, and again this is why I love this forum. I'm to the point where all I need is to remove the crank case cover. I've removed the 6 bolts and 4 nuts and washers, but it doesn't want to come off. I get a little wiggle room, but no real movement. I released the cables that need to come with it, but nothing? Do I also need to take off the circlip, ball bearing, and oil seal prior to this coming off, or do I just need to keep wiggling and tapping.

Thanks

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Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:00 pm View user's profile Send private message
rufusswan



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Taneyville, Missouri

Post Reply with quote
I'm not sure what you are talking about. If you mean the outside cover - the biggest piece that is in the round parts pan (on the left of the bottom photo), then many find them stuck on. Use a razor blade to break the 'suction' between the pieces and whack with a rubber mallet. You don't need to break the brittle aluminum. The gasket or HonedaBond between case pieces really holds things tight.

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Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:17 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
saluki10



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Quad Cities, IL

Post Reply with quote
Yep, it is the outside piece that he has laying in the pan that won't come off. It's not stuck together, as I can pull it a bit off and could, but don't think I should, get a screwdriver into the spacing. Maybe I just need to hit it harder with the mallet. I'll pound on it some more. If that's a no go, I'll post up some pix to see if anyone sees something I'm missing.

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Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:03 pm View user's profile Send private message
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